[TrishaLyn]

Consider this simply as a "devil's advocate" stance since I haven't actually come to that strong of an opinion on the matter...

But won't this vs. the PMA do more to hurt the industry in dividing us between two factions than unite the industry, which seems to be the mission of both groups?

Serious, thoughtful discourse and responses welcome. :cooldude:

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

TrishaLyn,

I split this post off the original thread so that it does get thoughtful discourse and responses.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

But won't this vs. the PMA do more to hurt the industry in dividing us between two factions than unite the industry, which seems to be the mission of both groups?

Serious, thoughtful discourse and responses welcome. :cooldude:

Here's the problem Trisha, I don't believe in nor support what has been happening nor the people doing the actions, as such I know there is enough of a demand for a REAL association not something that is to promote personal agendas of people ... as such I did something about it!

Am I nor anyone else not allowed to do that?

Are we precluded because Anik has already started to promote that he's industry endorsed? (see the J'accuse (http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=107840) thread).

[Merchant Consultant Team]

Trish:

Please take the time to listen to the AffVoice MP3
Someone talked about multiple associations within the legal industry.

Mr Mackin

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Here's what they want to do (http://event.on24.com/clients/default/presentation/default.html?titlecolor=000000&simulive=y&eventid=113679&sessionid=1&username=&partnerref=&format=rmaudio&key=31F127CDC1FBCB558BFA8883894FB3AD&text_language_id=en&playerwidth=1000&playerheight=667&eventuserid=17888269&contenttype=A&mediametricsessionid=15643712&mediametricid=296714&usercd=17888269&mode=launch) ... listen to all of it please (you'll need real player)

Here's what I want to do (http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=107738) ... once again, listen to all of it please.

[loxly]

PMA didn't give affiliates a voice at all. There are 2 affiliates on the FAB, affiliates are selectively chosen to be on work groups to help form the organization, and there is a select group that is calling the shots.

Were you a nominee in PMA? Did you see the list of nominees? The people on the nominee list could be the people that are forming the basis of that organization and although there are people in that group that are ethical and have the best interests of the industry at heart, there are also a large number that are in it only for "what's in it for me".

Affiliate Voice is a grass roots organization that will represent not just the special interest affiliates but truly represent the industry as a whole.

I don't see them as competing organizations. Did you listen to the call? You can be involved in either or both.

[Merchant Consultant Team]

Loxly:

We need to hear all sides Voicing their thoughts and concerns.
IMO

[HecticDMC]

Is Affiliate Voice divisive? Yes. Is PMA divisive? Yes. You can't say that one is and one isn't simply based on who came first. If you've got more than one organization with the same goal, they are, by definition, divisive. If there were no differences between the organizations and everyone joined both... well, that would never happen. People will join one, or join the other - some will join both, I'm sure - but there are stark differences between the two efforts.

Add to that, the fact that there is a perception - right or wrong - that AV is being formed in response to PMA by someone who is against PMA. Haiko can say it's not personal until he's blue in the face - and I believe him - but there are people in the industry who will refuse to believe it. Loxly can say that AV is not intended to be a competitor to PMA - and again, I believe that - but there are those who cannot see AV any other way.

And anyone can try to say that the situation is not divisive, but that's simply not the case. It is. But that doesn't make it wrong. AV would be needed with or without PMA on the scene. Divisiveness isn't always a bad thing.

That's how I see it.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

It behooves us to disclose ... something obviously lacking from the PMA initiative, the following:

Live Affiliate Manager Workshop
Location: Waterfront 1
Time: 8:00am - 12:30pm

Join Affiliate Classroom (http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=107840) for a half-day workshop dedicated to Affiliate Managers. Packed with tips, advice and how-to information, this workshop will include Networking opportunities so you can meet one another and begin building relationships. Plus, Roundtable Discussions where you can meet with your peers and a topical expert to discuss affiliate marketing best practices and advanced affiliate management strategies.

Learn from and interact with industry professionals including Peter Figueredo*, Trisha Lyn Fawver, Lee "The Lead Man" Gientke, Sam Harrelson*, Rebecca Madigan*, Heather Paulson*, Lisa Riolo* and Brad Waller*.

* added by me, denote KNOWN members / directors of PMA.

Not implying anything, just adding a fact to the conversation.

[flamingoworld]

I would be more likely to be supportive if I could just hear the positives about AV, what AV will do, it's goals and such without the bashing of the PMA. It is like politics, the candidates spend too much time bashing each other and not enough time on the issues. And by bashing it does leave the perception of it being personal, a vendetta and such.

I haven't joined any groups yet, nor do I support any yet. Can we please stick to the issues and not have to point out everything that isn't liked about the other group? People are smart enough to make their own decisions, we don't need people telling us why one group or the other is bad. Tell us why your group is good, not why the other is so bad.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Here's what they want to do (http://event.on24.com/clients/default/presentation/default.html?titlecolor=000000&simulive=y&eventid=113679&sessionid=1&username=&partnerref=&format=rmaudio&key=31F127CDC1FBCB558BFA8883894FB3AD&text_language_id=en&playerwidth=1000&playerheight=667&eventuserid=17888269&contenttype=A&mediametricsessionid=15643712&mediametricid=296714&usercd=17888269&mode=launch) ... listen to all of it please (you'll need real player)

Here's what I want to do (http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=107738) ... once again, listen to all of it please.

Don't worry Connie, it was easy to miss with the PMA disclosure (oops, I mean "bashing").

[flamingoworld]

My comment was meant for both organizations.

[Eric Ewe]

Tell us why your group is good, not why the other is so bad.
PMA was incubated for all the wrong reasons. Will it bring value to the table, Yes but having an ulterior motive will derail an organization.
http://forum.abestweb.com/showpost.php?p=850528&postcount=9

For AV, I saw 3 goals. One of them "Enforcement / Legal". I am scratching my head. It should be an organization that helps affiliates with legal problems, not be Judge Dredge.

No matter how you want to slice it, in affiliate marketing, you need 3 things.
1) Affiliates
2) Networks
3) Merchants
From what I see, AV is missing (2) and (3).

Here is my 2 cents.
Both organizations can co-exist.
For PMA, they need to drop the ultirior motive.

For AV, need a better platform or just a regular website. Having an association on a forum does not work. Everybody will be talking/posting and nobody is listening. Need agendas, plans, rules, etc. Need support of networks (and following that merchants). One is useless without the other.

[TrishaLyn]

I'm not associated with the PMA in any way, nor am I associated with Affiliate Classroom other than my involvement at their event next month. Call me naive, but my question was an honest one since I've never been involved in an industry organization so I'm listening to both sides of this.

Were you a nominee in PMA? Did you see the list of nominees? The people on the nominee list could be the people that are forming the basis of that organization and although there are people in that group that are ethical and have the best interests of the industry at heart, there are also a large number that are in it only for "what's in it for me".No, I wasn't a nominee and never saw the list of nominees, so I've yet to really see any ulterior motives. I also don't know many of the people if only by name recognition, so I'm not in a position to judge the people running it.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

TrishaLyn,

Thank you for clarifying that, and more importantly asking.

Did you listen to the two files?

do you see how the two are different do you see how what I suggest is bottom up vs the top down mentality that they present?

What are your thoughts on the localized association groups? Do you think they will aid in maintaining the voices and interests of the affiliates? Make sure that even the smallest voice is heard? How do you see that happening with the PMA? Have you seen all the questionable activity and links on their site ... does any of that bother you?

As an aff ...merchant.... OPM or consultant ... which would protect the long term good for the industry? And why? or why not?

[TrishaLyn]

I'm having trouble getting the files to load... still working on listening to them...

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

The one from the PMA requires real player, ours is an MP3 so any player should play it.

[TrishaLyn]

Yeah I finally got it to work... 5th time trying to load the page was the charm apparently. Listening right now... as soon as I'm done I'll answer your questions Haiko.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Good, hopefully I can answer more of yours.

[Kevin]

BTW, I know you're just listening to the files now, TL, but I don't think everyone considers this to be an issue of "factions".

To me, it's an "industry" association, and an 'affiliate" organization.

IMHO, the two can absolutely co-exist, even if they don't fully co-operate with each other. And I don't believe they will rival each other, as at inception, the stated goals of both seem to be very different.

[AffiliateSummitMissy]

I don't know if it's me, but I can not get that PMA to fully load so I can find the audio file to play. Is anyone else having that problem?

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Do you have real player installed?

[TrishaLyn]

I don't know if it's me, but I can not get that PMA to fully load so I can find the audio file to play. Is anyone else having that problem?For some dumb reason I couldn't get it to work in FF3 at all, and it took 5 reloads in IE to get it to work.

Keep tryin'

[AffiliateSummitMissy]

Do you have real player installed?

I sure do. The pages comes up but never fully loads. At first I get an "error on page" on the bottom and now I'm getting something that says "Duration... 3 minutes" but the page is just sitting there.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Not me hosting it, I'd be happy to but i'm sure I'll get a (C) claim so I can only point ppl to their link ... I just tried with navigator 9 and it's fine. I won't load RP in my real browser.