[markwelch]

I received a ShareASale notice today of "changes to program agreement" for Football Fanatics, which states: "Agreement has not changed... We need to state the fact that paid search is prohibited! Affiliate use of Paid Search (i.e. Google AdWords, Overture) to promote our merchandise is prohibited."

My question: What the heck does this actually mean? Certainly, it unquestionably prohibits any "direct to merchant" PPC campaigns. But is it intended to prohibit affiliates who use PPC to drive traffic to their sites? If I have a PPC campaign running for keywords like "49ers Jersey" or "Raiders memorabilia," which draws traffic to my site (which includes product ads for Football Fanatics and other merchants), is that acceptable? What if I am bidding on keywords like "49ers tickets" or "Raiders team roster"? Does it matter whether I include information about Football Fanatics products on the landing page?

For example: what if I ran PPC campaigns bidding on the keyword "49ers jersey" and sent the traffic to
www(dot)merchant-product(dot)com/search.php?q=49ers+jersey ? (Note: this link won't work after September 14.)

If your intent is to prohibit all uses of PPC by affiliates to drive traffic to their sites, then I'll simply remove all Football Fanatics links from my sites, and exclude Football Fanatics from any future niche-site efforts. (To date, I don't think I've ever pushed a sale to Football Fanatics, nor have I invested in a football-theme niche site yet -- so it'd be no apparent loss to either of us.)

[redtagdeals]

I think the AM managing this program is at best a knee jerk trigger happy fellow

[loxly]

It sounds to me like they do not allow ppc bidding at all, which is their right as a merchant. As long as it is stated in their terms you have a choice whether to promote them via other methods or not.

[Jason Rubacky]

I think the AM managing this program is at best a knee jerk trigger happy fellow

That is a false statement! This policy has been in place at Football Fanatics for years...

I apologize if the past AM did not relay this information correctly but these have been Football Fanatics terms.

[redtagdeals]

Jason - are you the one who pulled the trigger in our SAS account when there was no justification for it as we showed no sales in SAS for football fanatics.

If it was not you, then my comment was not directed at you

[Jason Rubacky]

Jason - are you the one who pulled the trigger in our SAS account when there was no justification for it as we showed no sales in SAS for football fanatics.

If it was not you, then my comment was not directed at you

Please explain what you mean by pull the trigger... The only triggers that were pulled were the ones at partners that were bidding directly on our trademarked terms... "Football Fanatics ..etc"

[redtagdeals]

Please explain what you mean by pull the trigger... The only triggers that were pulled were the ones at partners that were bidding directly on our trademarked terms... "Football Fanatics ..etc"

We had ZERO sales, ZERO correspondence on any violations.

But the trigger was pulled?

Was that you or someone prior to you?

[itsupportnotes]

The affiliate manager is not knee jerk reaction. I have been an affiliate of Football Fanatics for a long time. Their program has gone down over the years. Recently they added a dedicated AM who in a very short amount of time has updated tons of banners and has revamped the datafeed. If he now has to enforce some terms in the agreement then that is his job. Football Fanatics is and great program and I am sure will only get better.

[Jason Rubacky]

We had ZERO sales, ZERO correspondence on any violations.

But the trigger was pulled?

Was that you or someone prior to you?

I have only pulled the trigger once since I started with FF. And it wasn't for you... It was for a repeated offender.. that after 2 warnings continued to bid on our trademarked terms and tried to get sneaky by geo-targeting.

[redtagdeals]

Then it must be someone else at FF.

Let us put it behind us

Hope you make the program better for everyone with your good open communications and decency

[itsupportnotes]

Then it must be someone else at FF.

Let us put it behind us

Hope you make the program better for everyone with your good open communications and decency

I'm sure it will be good program. Like I said, before the program use to really great. I use to make a decent comish. Without PPC. Then it went downhill. I'm sure with an AM things can only get better.

[25trees]

The affiliate manager is not knee jerk reaction. I have been an affiliate of Football Fanatics for a long time. Their program has gone down over the years. Recently they added a dedicated AM who in a very short amount of time has updated tons of banners and has revamped the datafeed. If he now has to enforce some terms in the agreement then that is his job. Football Fanatics is and great program and I am sure will only get better.

I agree, Fooball Fanatics is a great affiliate program with excellent tools and lots of creative. Their data feed is the greatest.

[Jason Rubacky]

I understand the frustrations of not being able to use paid search. I previously ran a number of sites myself.

Obviously, our program isn't going to be the best program for everyone.. but I will sure try to make everyone successful by providing tools to help.


Thanks!

[helpingmoms]

Thanks for jumping in quickly to answer, Jason. :) It is refreshing to see AMs who answer honestly rather than duck and cover when questions are asked by affiliates.

[KimSalvino]

Jason is awesome!

I had the pleasure of spending some time with him at Affiliate Summit and he wants nothing more than to see his affiliate partners succeed. He is open, communicative and is eagerly working to get the program in shape. As he has said in the past, it was neglected for some time, and as a result, I'm sure there is a huge list of tasks he is working diligently to implement/improve.

One interesting point to note is that he brought his VP(?) with him to Affiliate Summit. He wants to educate those in the organization on ways to make the program better for affiliates and he wanted him to see it firsthand! That's dedication, folks.

The products he offers are of the highest quality. One of our Product Managers is a HUGE Gators fan and orders from them frequently. She has nothing but positive feedback for Football Fanatics.

I'll stop rambling on now, but you should have no problem putting your confidence in Jason. He is first rate.

[sunshiner]

Enforcing rules which are clearly stated in a merchants program is not to say that the AM is a jerk or any other name calling. Clearly their rules are stated and if you follow them, there will be no negative repercussions. Jason is truly one of the best AM's to work with especially given the position he took over and walked into a mess. Thanks for being on the ball Jason (no pun intended)

[markwelch]

Jason - I'm concerned that you did not answer my original question (apparently you were distracted by some comments that someone else made).

Is your policy intended to prohibit PPC bidding by an affiliate, where the PPC campaign drives traffic to the affiliate's own web site? Since I use PPC to drive traffic to my sites, should I strip all Football Fanatics links from my sites?

[Jason Rubacky]

Jason - I'm concerned that you did not answer my direct question: is your policy intended to prohibit PPC bidding by an affiliate, where the PPC campaign drives traffic to the affiliate's own web site?

That is correct Mark... we do prohibit any PPC bidding.

[markwelch]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll remove all Football Fanatics links from my sites. (I cannot imagine that I will ever build a new niche site that I would not wish to promote via PPC, even for sites that I design primarily to draw organic traffic.)

I strongly suggest that you modify the language in your terms to explicitly address this question. Most merchants who "prohibit PPC" only intend to prohibit "direct-to-merchant PPC," so some affiliates might assume that PPC bidding promoting the affiliate's own site would not violate your policy.

Of course, it's very difficult to detect this type of activity (PPC-to-affiliate-site) by affiliates, and thus your policy effectively excludes ethical affiliates but will likely reward other affiliates who engage in PPC bidding that you can't detect. (For example, if I were bidding on "49ers jersey" as discussed in my original post in this thread, and drew traffic from Google AdWords to my site, and then pushed customers to your site, you wouldn't know that the traffic originated from PPC, since my affiliate site's URL will appear as the referrer. Even if you monitor the display URLs listed for many PPC search phrases, you still wouldn't detect all "cheaters" -- for example, an affiliate who draws PPC traffic to their Site "A" and then includes links from Site "A" to product info at Site "B" which is enrolled as an affiliate and links to Football Fanatics).

I think your policy is unwise, but as others note, you're entitled to choose whatever terms & conditions you feel are right for your company.

[Jason Rubacky]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll remove all Football Fanatics links from my sites. (I cannot imagine that I will ever build a new niche site that I would not wish to promote via PPC, even for sites that I design primarily to draw organic traffic.)

Some of our most successful sites are niche sites... it's all about the original content and being creative. Sorry to see you go!


I think your policy is unwise, but as others note, you're entitled to choose whatever terms & conditions you feel are right for your company.

Honestly Mark.... I think our partners should be able to use paid search for non trademarked terms... that's a battle I am fighting and will hopefully become victorious!!!

[mayfly]

That is correct Mark... we do prohibit any PPC bidding.

Wow, if I have a page with a mix of football merchants products(including footballfanatics) on it, I can't even bid on "football jersey" on PPC for that page of my site?

I'm not a footballfanatics affiliate. But I will say that's the strictest ppc rule I've ever heard of. Sounds unwise to me.

[markwelch]

> "Wow, if I have a page with a mix of football merchants products(including footballfanatics) on it, I can't even bid on "football jersey" on PPC for that page of my site? I'm not a footballfanatics affiliate. But I will say that's the strictest ppc rule I've ever heard of. Sounds unwise to me." <

Yes, your example is exactly the example I used in starting this thread -- I referred to a page on my old datafeed-testing server which presents products from several different merchants matching the search term "49ers jersey."

This morning, that page included many products from Football Fanatics and several competitors; this afternoon, it includes only products from FF's competitors.

I suspect that the policy might not originate at Football Fanatics -- it's possible that this is a policy that has been handed down by the NFL or manufacturers. Both the NFL and MLB have been very aggressive in trying to prevent ANY PPC-bidding on team names, and of course that's exactly what people search for when they are looking for the kind of products that FF sells.

The result of the restrictive policies of the major sports franchisors is that "lawful, licensed products" are effectively excluded from visibility on PPC search, and instead the only ads visible are from policy-violators, trademark-infringers, and counterfeiters. The intent (protect trademarks) is completely undermined by the result (reduced sales by licensees, increased sales by counterfeiters).

[Donuts]

another example of the bad affiliate players making it hard for the ethical to do business...

[loxly]

Maybe Jason can use some of the information posted here to help convince management that they need to reconsider their policy.

[Jason Rubacky]

Maybe Jason can use some of the information posted here to help convince management that they need to reconsider their policy.

I love the way you think! I have already printed out the entire discussion and will be using as ammunition in my next go around... :up: