[microdot]

I'm looking for merchants to add to a new mall that I'm building, and am very impressed with the quality of your site, very impressed indeed.

The incentive scheme also looks very appealing.

Just one thing concerns me - the chargeback % on your CJ program is 34% - that's kinda high. Can you shed any light?

[flowerpower]

please dont shoot me either but what percentage of your customers use the live help feature? How much does that cost you anyway?

[jbresee]

As to live help, it's relatively inexpensive. $90 a month per seat.

I'm not sure what percentage use it's at. It's relatively new for us. However it's used by people who are confirming something's in stock, or they are international. Sometimes people just get confused in the shopping cart.

People cannot place orders over instant messaging...those orders still go through the cart.

[microdot]

What about my question? :confused:

[iucpxleps]

that answer is given before just use the search /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bluesx]

Does it matter?

Whatever the answer is, if you promote Backcountrystre.com, 35% of the sales you generate WILL be reversed. In my case, it was 98% and I dropped Backcountrystore immediately.

-BluesX

[jbresee]

Microdot,

Bryan, our affiliate manager is writing a thoughtful response to you. Sorry for the delay...looooong lunch.

As to BluesX point of view, please read this thread and you will start to understand his bitterness.

A Best Web Backcountrystore thread with BluesX (http://www.abestweb.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=40&t=000001)

[Bryan Rhodes]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by microdot:
Just one thing concerns me - the chargeback % on your CJ program is 34% - that's kinda high. Can you shed any light?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Our chargeback percentage concerns me, too.

There are a few reasons why our chargeback % is high. The biggest problem lies with our shopping cart. It's an old one that doesn't allow drop down boxes for the fields which we could use to weed out fraud. So people with stolen credit cards enter the correct information for the billing, then ship themselves 15 pairs of Oakley Juliets. With a better system we can block transactions to countries we don't ship to before they get into the CJ system.

We are working with Red Hat to build a new e-commerce platform that will look even better than are current site, and have a shopping cart that is much easier to use and allows us to keep out fraud. That should be up and running around mid-August and will make a huge difference.

The other reason our chargeback % is high is due to the way CJ calculates it. It is calculated using the dollar amount % reversed, not the number of sales. So a $3000 order of 15 Oakley Sunglasses that has to be reversed really spikes up the reversal %. I guess if you're trying to steal stuff online, you might as well try for a big score, because I don't see a lot of fraud orders coming through for $50. If Cj calculated reversals based on the number of transactions, our reversal rate would be around 10%, which is in line with the rest of the sporting goods industry.

The thing you should keep in mind with Reversals, is that I hate them at least as much as you do. My performance as an affiliate manager is judged on how much money our affiliate program earns each month and how well it converts. When I have to reverse a large transaction, or any transaction, it effects my pay too.

When we switch to our new platform, the reversal rate will decrease. I try to contact new affiliates when a large sale is reversed because of fraud. But if you ever have a question about a reversal, or anything else, just call or email and ask me. I'm happy to go over all the info with you. Nobody at BackcountryStore.com is out to reverse a legitimate transaction. We are a profitable company, we pay CJ ahead of time, and we recognize the value of our affiliates. I hope you will join our program.

Thanks,

Bryan Rhodes
BackcountryStore.com

[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: Bryan - BackcountryStore.com ]

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

microdot,

BackCountryStore is a 100% approved ABW merchant (Alex is making a special logo for this designation - it is a free, but earned designation ... and they have!).

I have spoken with John and know what they are doing to improve their program externally and internally ... they are very responsive and responsible ... they have my <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif>

Unfortunately there are many unethical affiliates who can skew a real company's numbers.

Haiko

[Bluesx]

>Unfortunately there are many unethical affiliates who can skew a real company's numbers.

Are there unethical affiliates of Backcountrystore who are purposely generating fraudulent orders?

Ethics seem to be a big issue here, I'd like to know.

-BluesX

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BluesX:
>Unfortunately there are many unethical affiliates who can skew a real company's numbers.

Are there unethical affiliates of Backcountrystore who are purposely generating fraudulent orders?

Ethics seem to be a big issue here, I'd like to know.

-BluesX<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blues,

You know the percentages of fraudulent orders which also contribute to a reversal rate!

Ethics are an issue HERE and BCS has passed time and time again!

Haiko

[Bluesx]

Haiko,

Are you the judge on ethics? How does that 100% ABW approved thing work?

I think the former affiliates' experience do not count towards bad ethics on merchant side, as long as you Haiko make money off the merchant via ABW advertisements?

How does it really work?

-BluesX

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Blues,

Allow me to repeat ... since you did NOT see it the first time!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BackCountryStore is a 100% approved ABW merchant (Alex is making a special logo for this designation - it is a free, but earned designation ... and they have!).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a dime has been exchanged between Me / ABW and BCS!

I HONESTLY believe in John / Bryan! FWIW!
Don't piss on them because they are on CJ, They are real and good!

Haiko
PS. I take serious offense to your implication!

[Bryan Rhodes]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BluesX:
>Unfortunately there are many unethical affiliates who can skew a real company's numbers.

Are there unethical affiliates of Backcountrystore who are purposely generating fraudulent orders?

Ethics seem to be a big issue here, I'd like to know.

-BluesX<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blues,

I haven't found a trend to suggest that our affiliates are unethical. We've had affiliates whose websites generated more fraud then legitimate sales, but I don't believe any of it was intentional. They just choose to market high fraud items, mainly sunglasses and watches.

If someone was trying to defraud BackcountryStore.com through the affiliate program, it would show up in the transaction reports. I check every sale posted to CJ against our Order Manager software, and our customer service department is very good at spotting fraud. I'm not saying it's impossible to sneak one past us and I don't want to challenge anybody to try, but we have a lot of eyeballs checking orders before they go out to make sure the sale is legitimate.

I know you had a bad experience with our program, Blues, and I'm sorry about that. If you ever get out to Utah maybe we could sit down and talk it over. It would be great to have your passion for affiliate marketing working with us, not against us.

Microdot, Hopefully your question has been answered and you decide to promote BackcountryStore.com. Our program works for a lot of people, but not everyone. I'm here to help when, and if, you need it.

Thanks,

Bryan

[TH Media]

Blues...you have talked about how much experience you have as an affiliate....what about from the merchant side? As merchant, I can tell you we are getting more and more fraudulent orders from stolen credit cards. Something to think about...if I suspect that an order is no good, I will call the alledged buyer. Not a single one of them was aware their card had been stolen, and were quite shocked when I called them. Everything went through the screening process.

I think it is the nature of Bryans business where people would order a number of products and have them shipped overseas. In our case, it is people checking a card numbers validity before they go to a site like Bryans to order products...or to sell that number off to other theives.

As for the actual % rate of their reversals, I am assuming that customers cards are processed after the fact...perhaps the next day. By then stats are showing sales, and Bryan is stuck with a box of sunglasses that will never get shipped out...to a card that was stolen.

In our case, through 2checkout, almost all of our fraudulent orders are stopped in their screening process...there are the occasional ones that do get through (as in my previous statement about people not knowing their card was stolen).

I will say that Bryan and crew should find a better way to process credit cards to stop the frauds before the order completes...until then, there will be reversals, but it doesn't mean that they aren't on the level.

Just my 2cents

[Bluesx]

>Not a dime has been exchanged between Me / ABW and BCS!

Good. Thanks for clearing that up.

>I HONESTLY believe in John / Bryan! FWIW!
Don't piss on them because they are on CJ, They are real and good!

Haiko, I am looking at my OWN experience with them. They might have been at LS and I would have opposed them the same way I do now.

>PS. I take serious offense to your implication!

Yes, you should. The judging the ethics issue is still up for grabs.

-BluesX

[microdot]

Thanks to everyone who responded, I can understand that fraudulent transactions are a big problem on the net, and that often these are detected after the 'sale' is logged in CJ's or others stats.

I can also see that with goods like clothing and shoes there are going to be a higher volume of legitimate returns - it's very difficult to decide if something looks good on you until you have physically tried it on.

Bryan has seen fit to join our community here and to get involved in dialogue with us. I think we owe it to this type of merchant to listen to what they have to say and to work together with them to our mutual benefit. I'm gonna give it a shot.

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

John and Bryan forgive me ... for posting this in your forum ... but this needs to be said!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>as long as you Haiko make money off the merchant via ABW advertisements?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BluesX,

I was the one who never knew about CJU and when I called support after I pissed away $5K in a weekend on Telocity PPC listings ... pissed away because they had no tracking method to interface with CJ! We all know how boisterous I was about that and then continued my my fellow affiliates lack when CJ decided to kill off the building site traffic and site review forums and established ABW days thereafter.
ABW has grown and we have fought (and won) many battles against the injustices and parasites (WhenU, WurldMedia and soon to be Gator) ... to be what it is today we are the only board to have all of the top three ad networks and are the fastest growing affiliate board for a reason!

They [Merchants and Dupers know that we are real and expect them to be ... the impetus of ABW was and always will be to help affiliates and merchants to earn more ... ethically .... nothing more! I recently initiated a $1000 fee and a review for all merchants who wish to be on ABW for we have the productive and proactive affiliates who congruently want us all to make more! There has only been one merchant who paid this fee .... and the payment has gone to the advertising of the banneradXchange ... not my pocket! ..... I have never made a dime, more so lost a pretty penny on ABW ... but I know it is a resource where not only I, but my fellow affiliates learn ... and ACT (against ParasiteWare).

Our goal is only ethical as is John and Bryans'! That Is why as a F'ed affiliate, who knows better, support them!

Haiko

[Bluesx]

>I know you had a bad experience with our program, Blues, and I'm sorry about that. If you ever get out to Utah maybe we could sit down and talk it over. It would be great to have your passion for affiliate marketing working with us, not against us.

Utah! Man that's in the middle of nowhere! But oh, So is Denver and I had to be there many many times! You never know. Besides, I'd like to see your order reversal team making the works!.. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But if you ever happen to be in NY/NJ area, drop me a line and I'll buy you a drink!

You don't want me to work against you, don't make me. Besides, I'd love to sell your great merchandise and get paid for doing so.

-BluesX

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

BluesX,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes, you should. The judging the ethics issue is still up for grabs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not Call Herby and work it out!

Read my (above) post!

I am no one but the fool who pays for your bandwidth on this board and who has put their wallet and neck on the line many times over ... don't question ME or my impetus!

Haiko

[Bluesx]

>I am no one but the fool who pays for your bandwidth on this board and who has put their wallet and neck on the line many times over ... don't question ME or my impetus!

First, there was an implication on YOUR post that I might be the "unethical affiliate".

Second, This board is for profit. If you are even trying to institute a fee for merchant message board, that is for profit. You may be ethical in running a business for profit but you know very well that I am not to question that.

Third, I am sorry I am not caching the images and denying the third party cookies. Just bill me for my bandwidth... oh, better yet, just send me the invoice for ABW hosting costs, I'll be more than happy to pay them all.

Fourth, sometimes you are talking for yourself only and making it sound like its and ABW consensus. I had a very good question above. Who is judging the merchant's ethics? This has gone unanswered. Who is ABW? You and the rest of the moderators? I am curious.

-BluesX

[Bryan Rhodes]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BluesX:
But if you ever happen to be in NY/NJ area, drop me a line and I'll buy you a drink!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll take you up on that!!


---You don't want me to work against you, don't make me. Besides, I'd love to sell your great merchandise and get paid for doing so.

I'll take you up on that, too!! Maybe we'll use you to test a private affiliate network. I'll keep you posted.

Bryan

[Bluesx]

>I'll take you up on that!!

Great. It is often that we find peace in a beer bottle!.. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-BluesX

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BluesX:
[QB]>I am no one but the fool who pays for your bandwidth on this board and who has put their wallet and neck on the line many times over ... don't question ME or my impetus!

First, there was an implication on YOUR post that I might be the "unethical affiliate".

No Blues ... your not unethical! we all know that! ... but I guess I AM! /infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Second, This board is for profit. If you are even trying to institute a fee for merchant message board, that is for profit. You may be ethical in running a business for profit but you know very well that I am not to question that.

The fees go back to recruiting more affiliates, services, and to banner ad buys for the BannerAdXchange

Third, I am sorry I am not caching the images and denying the third party cookies. Just bill me for my bandwidth... oh, better yet, just send me the invoice for ABW hosting costs, I'll be more than happy to pay them all.

Not neccessary ... I am paying them

Fourth, sometimes you are talking for yourself only and making it sound like its and ABW consensus. I had a very good question above. Who is judging the merchant's ethics? This has gone unanswered. Who is ABW? You and the rest of the moderators? I am curious.

As one of the most F'ed affiliates and lead person, since I set up and pay for ABW, I proclaimed myself as the judge (I trust myself as many others do!). The other moderators ... look on the top of the respective forums it will tell you who they are.

Haiko

[Bluesx]

Haiko,

I am going to cut it short and let's leave this behind.

Just setting up ABW and paying for hosting costs does not give you the right or trustworthiness to judge anyone's ethics.

In most situations, especially ones where I am involved, things will settle and be fine without a need for your or any other ABW partners' interruption.

You should not be begging for respect just because you proclaim yourself to be the leader. I respect you as a good friend, I do not respect your work ethics on ABW moderation/interruption.

-BluesX