[sgtsearch]

Hello,

I am new to this forum but am on quite a few different ones across the web. I came across this site after searching for Ezula information resource sites. No advertising, just free code for whoever wants it. Please pass it on to as many webmasters that you can. The more that use it, the more Ezula will feel the effects......

No javascript and no refresh required --> http://www.sgtsearch.com/blacklist/ttext.html

As for WhenU, it works off of the browers location bar. We cannot manipulate the text in the browser bar to make When U think it is somewhere else. But we can close the loaction bar with the onclick command.

<A onclick=&quot;window.open['http://www.amazon.com',
'whateveryouwanttonamethiswindow','location=no'); return false&quot;
target=&quot;_main&quot;href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com&quot;>My Amazon Link</a>

This opens a new window with no location bar and WhenU is unable to compare it to it's database. You'll have to add this to each link you want to protect:-( Me and Thiefware.com are working on other code for this.

So there you have it.

I am really concerned about the TopText code making it's way around. If you want you can add it to your site. It's all up to you....just use it, and spread the word.

Thanks :-)

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

SgtSearch,

Welcome! <IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/welcome.gif> Thanks for the codes<IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif>

Haiko

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

ALL,

I have spoken to quite a few MAJOR affiliate managers who work with Linkshare who have told me "unofficially" that they and Messer will be "forcing" WhenU not to pop up on any affiliates site. Now this plan would prevent them from showing FTD pop ups on 1800Flowers or orbitz pop ups showing up on my Travel site! I think the plan is a good method to curtail them (keeping them in the [ad] network) allows for some control ... for if they weren't WhenU would make private deals for the Save Now pop ups and that (actionable) would cost all involved way too much.

Haiko

[ecomcity]

Thanks for the scumware STOP codes and Haiko seems to be getting respect form those affiliate managers wanting to distance their companies from the bad PR of thieftware vultures.

[elbowcreek]

Hey Sarge -

You are *the dude*

-elbowcreek
Elbow Creek Magazine (http://www.elbowcreek.com)

[jimbo2002]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Messer will be "forcing" WhenU not to pop up on any affiliates site. Now this plan would prevent them from showing FTD pop ups on 1800Flowers or orbitz pop ups showing up on my Travel site! I think the plan is a good method to curtail them (keeping them in the [ad] network) allows for some control ... for if they weren't WhenU would make private deals for the Save Now pop ups and that (actionable) would cost all involved way too much.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haiko, does this mean there will not be any boycotts or anything else on our part?

I have had a discussion with one affiliate manager who is very interested in using Whenu to put ads on competitors' sites, so I do not think that just because Linkshare tells them they cannot do it thru them that that will prevent private deals. Linkshare does not control Whenu.

Also when you say LS will make sure they do not show up on affiliate sites, what exactly does that mean? They will not be allowed to run pop ups on any merchant or affiliate of Linkshare? That is hard to believe.

SeaveNow is currently running 1800flowers pop-ups on one of my sites. They are well aware of the situation, so let's take anything LS and the merchants with a grain of salt until we see some actual action rather than this talk.

In my opinion we need a list, and we need to boycott. We had a lot of momentum, and LS is not capable of controlling Whenu (since when has LS cared about affiliates anyways?).

[Haiko de Poel, Jr.]

Jimbo2002,

You misunderstood the thrust behind my post.

Linkshare WANTS to control WhenU by keeping them as affiliates with caveats.

This is not being done for the benefit of "affiliates" but for the Merchants who are affected by WhenU, there are alot of merchants being screwed by whenU as well!

They have been pressuring Messer and before this goes to the IAB they are trying to work it out so that the Save Now pop up only comes when it is NOT an affiliate's link or competing merchant's site.

I have spoken (via telephone) at length with Prakash (1-800Flowers.com) and trust me they ARE ACTIVELY working on the WhenU Situation.

The Merchant boycott is the quickest "Fix" but not necessarily the best! ~ We have created a lot of momentum that has and is being felt buy all involved ... we must now however confirm the positions of the merchants before we black list them .... once we have secured the new list we will ACTIVELY boycott and I mean BIG TIME!

None of these actions by Affiliate Managers, CEOs or customers would have happened if it were not for the affiliates .... we have the power to change programs and positions and we WILL exercise it ..... but effectively and controlled to maximize end results.

The week of the 2nd we should have the "New Blacklist" to attack and we WILL!

Haiko

[jimbo2002]

Haiko,

That is good news and thank you for the clarifcation. I'll be looking forward to the new blacklist when I get back from vacation.

One thing are still not clear - How is Linkshare going to control Whenu's involvements outside of LS? (like on CJ or with Findwhat or private deals)

1800flowers has sure been "working on it" for a long time, but in the meantime Whenu has increased its involvement with them to the point they are targeting small affiliate sites.

Whenu essentially stole from all these merchants by scoring referrals AFTER the visitor was already on the site (whether it was free or affiliate traffic or bookmarks or whatever). I can't believe they are still paying them.

[thecontractorsgroup.com]

Hi Everybody!

I am hearing that framesets are stopping the WhenU popups. Does anyone know anything about this and can someone tell me why merchants don't want us using frames and/or framesets?

Thank you!
Diane

[ 01-05-2002: Message edited by: thecontractorsgroup.com ]

[thecontractorsgroup.com]

Hey All!

Here's some info I found elsewhere:

To stop Gator from laying images over the top of your images, make your images a pixel smaller (or more) or larger (ie: instead of 468x60, make it 467x59 or 469x59. The images are made to lay over the tops of same size images so if we change our images sizes ever so slightly, they (feasibly) cannot lay their images over ours. Obviously, if this works, Gator will catch on and will start making other size images to fit ours, but it's definitely a start. What we would have to do is to obtain our merchants images, use them as examples and recreate their images ever so slightly smaller or bigger, then link those images to our affiliate links, and go from there....

Any thoughts on this anyone?

Have a great day! Diane

[ecomcity]

It gets really frustrating to be even associated with the advertising industries true bottom feeders ...online/e-mail Ads. Amazing how really spoiled and lazy this whole industry has become as they step into swampy waters ( scumware -spamm-parasite wares) trying to scamm advertisers into thinking this is the way to go. They think the online world belongs to them and tactics to fool/entice or ripp off shoppers are just fine with them as long as they can bill for the services. Affiliate marketing works only if the merchant has a mindset to take on sales partners. If not they will resort to scumware and these so called super affiliate ploys to steal eyebalss at the time of purchase.

Next step is to secretly place K-mart cash registers into WalMart stores and run sidewalk open FleaMarket sales for computer gear in front of your local Best Buy store. At the root of the problem are greedy non-paying merchants who just consider the Internet as one big Ad placement. Spend some time and thought on affiliate converting specific landing pages if you want sales results.

[curt]

Frame sets do stop WhenU.com's SaveNow from working Nearly 100% of the time (almost all browsers support framesets). JavaScript can be employed as sgtsearch has pointed out.

I have a PERL script that anyone can install (provided that your web space allows PERL to run). It uses a frameset to keep the affiliate URL from showing. It keeps you from having to create dozens of different framesets for each unique affiliate link. This will no doubt be something some of you would appreciate. If you only have 1 or 2 affiliate links, you could just create 1 or 2 frame sets and that would do the trick.

I will be making the script available for download hopefully very soon. For those that don't have CGI-bin access, I will make available an easy to use JavaScript version. JavaScript is about 90% effective while my Perl script is nearly 100% effective.

I haven't gotten them up on the ThiefWare.com web site due to other issues that I have been busy with (yes, I have another life outside of my ThiefWare busting pursuit). I really hate what WhenU.com is doing to us affiliates :mad: . Slowly but surely I have been working at defeating them too.

P.S. Make sure you visit http://www.thiefware.com and get the ezula toptext deactivators (the new ones detect and notify the person if Toptext runs and cancels out the effects of toptext. RidText Pro also gives the user the option to popup a new window taking them to ThiefWare.com to learn about Toptext, surf+, etc.). sgtsearch and I have also been working together in cooperation to defeat toptext. He came up with the style tag method of stopping toptext.

Eight months ago, I was blissfully creating sites and now all this crap comes up.

[curt]

BTW, I will be compiling a list of WhenU.com partners - there are lots of them. Once I get the list up, I would appreciate some help in gathering the associated URL's and contact email addresses of those partners. We can then contact all the whenu partners and hopefully nudge them to remove their ties with whenu.

I have a hard time believing that Amazon.com would allow whenu to do what they are doing. They must not care much about their reputation. Has anyone contacted amazon.com?

[Cedric]

I've contacted them both as an affiliate and as a customer... I'm quite positive many others have as well... they're generic response (as I recall) is that the situation is "under review"... well, that was before Christmas, to my knowledge, it is STILL under review.

pblttttttttt...

[KariBon]

SgtSearch, Our software and baby gear product pages were one big mess of Yellow underlines, all going to Looksmart, and I used your code, ) shown at bottom of this letter.)
Just above </head> tags. It's the best TopText killer we've tried. Pages we have it on are clean of yellow, no "refresh" of page or anything. It's great. Thank you!!

We're doing something wrong with the WhenU code and can't make it work because we really don't understand how to put our links in when they go to products, brands, or categories. But we're not too smart and doing something wrong but don't know what.

Regarding WhenU/SaveNow, I got an eMail which you or any other of you geniuses should take to heart, as my reply to her was
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Diane, if you're saying what I think you are, someone is going to keep inventing codes to counteract these Older parasites & new ones everytime they rear their ugly heads. It would be worth more to me than all Norton Security, Firewalls and AntiViruses I have and gladly would pay for it (lots for it!) and pay for updates as the new scum appears. And you're right, the one who just goes and DOES IT would have a "niche" that no webmaster in his right mind who's ever seen WhenU and SaveNow in action wouldn't buy!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was her letter
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Message text written by "Diane Dennis at TheContractorsGroup.com"
>What I think is going to happen is this, people won't stop making these
types of parasiteware and scumware, so a new business is going to be formed
somewhere. Someone has the ability (actually lots of someones I'm sure) to
write code to shut these bad guys out, and he (or she) is going to be able
to have a business that will never die because people will continue to make
scumware programs which will keep this new business alive. As long as
scumware is out there, this business would thrive<<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't one of you do it as a business? Everyone seems too busy to really get to work on it ... but this would be a great business and as Diane said, it would THRIVE!

Thanks again for the great TopText stopper, Sarge!

This is SgtSearch's code, if someone hasn't seen it.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">&lt; !-- StopText code courtesy SgtSearch.com and Thiefware.com --&gt;
&lt;style type="text/css"&gt;&lt; !-- span {font-size:12px} --&gt;&lt;/style&gt;</pre>

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: KariBon ]

Karin,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I can' get the actual code to show here. It's the one with ...
style type="text/css" span, a font-size and close style. Maybe Haiko will fix it here?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To include basic html press the http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/code.gif button and insert the code.

Haiko

[KariBon]

< !-- StopText code courtesy SgtSearch.com and Thiefware.com -->

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>(style type="text/css")
< !-- span {font-size:12px} -->
(/style)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Replace () with <>

< !-- Stop here and insert into your site head tags -->

Haiko, if it turns out right now, thanks!
I kept trying to insert this into the EDIT of message on page 1, and it wiped out everything after in the Edit section, so I just finally left it as it was on page 1.

Should have just given the link SgtSearch put when he started this thread. Didn't realize it was right there, in Red on his http://www.sgtsearch.com/blacklist/ttext.html

BTW, HotBot searches turn up SaveNow pop-ups for keywords now too. Have #2 listing on Ten Most Popular Sites (or whatever it's called for Top Ten)
for a popular two-word phrase, and wondered why so little hits from HotBot. What's the use of optimizing anymore ... or paying PositionTech ... Or doing anything for a good listing, or doing Framesets. Or anything?

Karin ... who wishes she'd never installed all this junk, and was still "merry making web pages, and kept tweaking and tweaking for a better listing" and never knew why good ranking spots were actually good for nothing anymore anyway.

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: KariBon ]

[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: KariBon ]

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Haiko ]

[Leader]

"What's the use of optimizing anymore ... or paying PositionTech ... Or doing anything for a good listing, or doing Framesets. Or anything?~KariBon"

KariBon, You want a list, I've got a list!

Staying in this business is still useful and good because:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Most listings are still quite lucrative! I've only got one surprise dud out of a LOT of listings (on Google, PPCs have more dud listings)--and my log files show they're never getting to my page in the first place. In other words, it's NOT parasiteware. A hit to my site would show up, even if the viewers got hijacked after they came.

<LI>Not everyone has parasiteware installed.

<LI>Of those that did install it, a lot UNinstall it due to the annoying popups.

<LI>Most people automically hit X on popups anyway.

<LI>The ones that don't are probably the same ones that make PPC links on a sales page profitable for Fred. In other words, they weren't too intent on buying from you anyway!

<LI>There are 1200+ merchants on CJ alone. Parasiteware isn't targeting every keyword that applies! Add in the other networks and there's still quite a pool of potential.

<LI> The banner coverup part of the Gator variety of parasiteware, can be defeated just by resizing the banner by a pixel or so.

[/list]

There you have it: a list of answers to your question of "What's the use?"

[KariBon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leader:
"What's the use of optimizing anymore ... or paying PositionTech ... Or doing anything for a good listing, or doing Framesets. Or anything?~KariBon"

KariBon, You want a list, I've got a list!
Staying in this business is still useful and good because:
..... Leader's list is above ...
There you have it: a list of answers to your question of "What's the use?"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Leader.
I was going to delete all those discouraging words as woke up optimistic today. You're right and I hope my bad attitude of last night didn't put any other affiliates down in the dumps about affiliate marketing. It's been my life for past five years and it is very lucrative, but I'd gotten obsessed wih scumware for having installed it "just to see what's happening".

Thanks again!
Karin

[ecomcity]

Uninstalling the parasite/scumware portion isn't easy like the FREEBEE enticement program that duped someone into a downlaod. The spyware and shopping POPups go right into the Windows O/S registry and take some real efforts to delouse your machine.

Guess what? Another mechanism among the affiliate crowd similar to WhenU.com from Ebates.com. It's a download called the "Moe Money Maker" and it does almost the exact same thing that WhenU.com's download does. Basically, when a vistitor hits any affiliate sites of ebates (which is many sites from CJ, Linkshare, or Be Free) it pops up a window and says that you are earning a % back while shopping at that site.
In essence, if a hard-working affiliate sends a user thru a text link or banner to one of their affiliated merchants and that user has the Moe-Money maker installed... ZAP... Commission just went to ebates. Fair? Hardly.

The ebates site is a typical "incentive" site with a great idea like CyberRebates had before bilking millions out of consumers and it is not a scumware site but their download mechanism needs to go out the window along with all the parasite/scumware viruses. My thought would be to make Overture start bidding anything with the word FREE in it at 5.00/click

[Leader]

Even if it isn't easy to uninstall most of this, I would still think that the X-Factor would cut down on its effectivess a lot. I can't count how many here have said they automatically X popup windows before they even load!

I would think that THAT is not just a webmaster phenomenon--popups must be universally annoying!

(I kind of like that idea of having the parasiteware places bidding at $5/click to Start! Heh heh...you know that a #1 Spot war would erupt even at that price--driving the top bid to about $30!)

[KariBon]

<IMG src=http://www.abestweb.com/ubb/icons/icon36.gif>

Leader .. you don't have it installed and can't see what's happening because you said <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>my log files show they're never getting to my page in the first place. In other words, it's NOT parasiteware. A hit to my site would show up, even if the viewers got hijacked after they came.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you don't understand that they are not getting to your page in the FIRST place because WhenU is on the Search Engine and over-rides your listing, and they don't get to your page becuz WhenU pops up to give them better places to go to.

Not just a SaveNow square with a picture, but a square with a list of other pages to go to instead of the pages on the search results. And a scrollbar to get down to even more other pages with the same keyword.

Install the D*mn thing and then say it's NOT
parasiteware!

Karin

[Leader]

KariBon, I did forget about that bit with them popping on SEs (I did read it), BUT-- are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that EVERYONE who wants a certain type of loan is using ParasiteWare?

COME ON, GET REAL!!! Even MICROSOFT doesn't have 100% MARKET PENETRATION!

And No Thanks to your suggestion. I will continue to be among those who don't have that piece of junk on their computer. Which is most likely the majority of the Internet!!!

And I don't like your assumption that WhenU users would figure that the WhenU offerings are better than mine, either. That's bogus! Most people are going to X that popup like they do all others!!!

For your edification!

A) Traffic is up at all of my sites. So the people ARE getting through!!!!!

B) The CR is about the same--so they're NOT disappearing somewhere between me and my Commissions, either!

C) The Deposit is bigger--much!

That's all I need to see, to know that as of this point I have spent enough energy on this subject!

Hmph, try to cheer someone up and see what I get :mad:

PS. By "It's not Parasiteware", I MEANT, that Parasiteware wasn't responsible for the nonresponse to that link--NOT that WhenU isn't Parasiteware!

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Leader ]

[KariBon]

Dear Leader, I'm sorry I made you see "red" but when I ran into a post that you didn't have it installed and then you said it wasn't Parasiteware, I saw Red too.

You're lucky your keywords aren't targets .. all of mine are. But if I worded my message in a way to make you mad, I sincerely am sorry. When I get mad my heart pounds and now am mad at myself so have to get an apology "off my chest". I shouldn't have said "install the d*mn thing".

Anyway, again, I'm sorry. And tired of energy spent on this too!

Karin

[Leader]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>PS. By "It's not Parasiteware", I MEANT, that Parasiteware wasn't responsible for the nonresponse to that link--NOT that WhenU isn't Parasiteware!~Me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apology accepted. I reread my post (the one that got you upset) and realized that it looked like I thought WhenU etc. weren't parasiteware. /infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

That's not what I had meant at all--I added the PS in the quote above, to my angry response but I want to make a special point to say that

I DO think WhenU etc. are parasites!!

But I still don't think that's why nobody's responding to the link I'm thinking of. Some people would still be getting through...

So I meant, "it's not Parasiteware (that's killing the pulling power of the SE link)!"

Even though my original reasoning was faulty (as soon as you said it pops on SEs I remembered reading that), I still don't think it's what's killing that SE link because it doesn't have 100% market penetration, and a lot of people would hit X before they knew what the leech-window said anyway.

Next time I will try to write more clearly!

Peace.