[buy at]

Hi Everyone

Sorry to preach on but damn the expo I just attended was such an eye opener.

Literally droves of networks offering CPA offers - quite staggering the volume of them.

I'd say do you work with CJ and LS and they would say no - I'd say why would you approach us then - queue sales pitch - I'd say well why wont CJ and LS take this then and silence - I mean come on its not like other US networks are whiter than white and even they wont get involved lol thats saying something from companies saved from going bust by morpheus!

Line after line - blind networks this and that - again damn I'm thinking what is this jungle I'm being sold lol

it was a shock to the system - why would I ever syndicate something with a company I have no clue where else they syndicate thats just a recipe for ending up on some spyware driven path!

-

My point is they have given CPA a bad name - its just a metric but in the US its almost a dirty word lol

CJ and LS both do CPA its just cost per acquisition and means no more no less in my book - buy.at has lots of CPA programs in the UK for instance credit cards ( we have the most credit card clients in the UK for a big brand network )

Nothing wrong with that affs get paid a set CPA for selling a cc - no mysetery or dark secrets there all networks in the Uk have some programs like that - its either CPA or percentage sale and we can all track either thats baby stuff.

The people I spoke to at expo made CPA sound like a dirty word and that makes me sad. its not CPA thats dirty its the people pushing it imo

We do not have anything like that amount of crap in the UK market and I am fired up to make sure that we are leading the fight to get the US unhooked from rubbish like this.

Rant over :-)

Mal

[Alan Hamilton]

Mal,

I think you are aware that you are probably preaching to the choir in this forum. :cheerful:

If I'm hearing you correctly, you saying is that If you separate the "concept" of Cost Per Acquisition from the "practices" of many who give it a bad name, the concept is fine. A good ppc on G (sounds like a deli sandwich?) yields a conversion rate, and from that conversion rate we can determine our cost per acquisition. That is the "Concept." From there is the "practice" and in general, the practice side is the problem.

Alan

[MichaelColey]

Yeah, CPA really has a dual meaning in the US.

With one meaning, "CPA" is just cost per acquisition, which is basically affiliate marketing. Nothing wrong with that.

With the other meaning, a "CPA Network" is very frequently a bottom-dwelling network that pushes a large number of deceptive offers, allows unscrupulous affiliates, and often engages in a lot of questionable practices themselves. They've really turned CPA into a dirty word.

I'm not saying that all CPA Networks are bad, that all offers on CPA networks are deceptive, or that all affiliates of CPA Networks are unscrupulous. But enough are that it's usually easier to assume that they are until proven otherwise.

There's been some good discussion in the Inner Circle about this.

[Billy Kay]

I think the major networks have drifted soooo far from what legitimate affiliate marketing is, that the line between a "good" network and a "bad" network has been blurred.

The same merchantX offer that is on 2 major networks, is also available on many CPA Networks - at considerably higher commisions.

Hec! I've seen Linkshare merchants (supposedly exclusivity clause) on CPA Networks - at higher commissions.

We all know that the major networks have absolutely nothing resembling affiliate support. In my opinion, they've made it abundantly clear they don't want to be contacted by affiliates. CPA Networks have dedicated 24/7 support.

Does anyone from a major network contact you PERSONALLY and offer to help? I don't mean "here's this month's coupon/place it at the top of your page" emails. I mean personal emails addressed to you with a sincere offer to help?

Do you have any control over how much correspondence you get from the networks? None! You can tell a dedicated CPA rep 1. I don't want to be called and 2. No more then 1 email a week. And that's what you get!

Do the major networks even offer coreg? No.

Can you call Linkshare and say CJ has the same offer, and they pay $5 more! And have your commission increased on the spot? No!!!!!!!!

Are there bad players in the CPA world? Most definately! If you join a CPA network does that make you a bad apple? No.

I think the Major Networks are soley responsible for the rise in CPA Networks. If the major networks were working as designed, there would be no need for CPA networks.

[Leader]

Can you call Linkshare and say CJ has the same offer, and they pay $5 more! And have your commission increased on the spot? No!!!!!!!!How can CPA networks do that? Isn't it up to the merchant?

[buy at]

I'd be interested in reading the inner circle stuff if Haiko thinks I'm ok to see it ? :-)

Hopefully as we grow we can give CPA a better name in the US.

Seems like most of the CPA networks that bumped into me were desperate to push their "exclusive " offers on as many folk as possible - I got the impression it didnt really matter where the traffic came from as long as it was traffic .

Merchant's really need a wake up call as this kind of stuff will be cannabalizing their other channels and costing them money .

The internet has moved on you don't need to fly blind anymore - there are other options !

I can see the education process is going to be a long road hehe

Mal

[MoneyBusiness]

$10 will get you into the inner circle (or 500 posts), whichever comes first.

[UncleScooter]

We need a new term to identify the second-tier CPA networks that use adware and other slimy tactics from the real Affiliate Networks that operate on a CPA model. Most people recognize the term CPA network as one of these slimy networks of sub-affiliates, where the network itself is an aggresive affiliate and employs sleazy means of monetization then blames it on a rogue affiliate when they get caught. We see this over and over and over again.

I call them SA CPA Networks (sub affiliate). But yes, you are right, these sleazy networks have given the entire industry a bad name, yet they are right here and they all pretend to be clean. As the grip tightens on the use of adware these networks will drop like flies. They will then try to fit in to the normal CPA Affiliate environment and will be lost because all they know how to do is cheat and decieve to earn money.

[Joe Lilly]

How can CPA networks do that? Isn't it up to the merchant?

Most CPA networks can operate on a MUCH smaller margin, leaving more cash available to the affiliates.

[MichaelColey]

How can CPA networks [increase commissions without asking the merchnat]? Isn't it up to the merchant?The way it typically works with CPA Networks is that the advertiser (I hesitate to call most of them merchants) pays them a set amount per lead and the CPA Network has free reign. They usually set the base rate 10-20% below, but will cut their profit to keep from losing a good producer. I don't think the advertiser even knows which affiliates are promoting them or what they're being paid.

[buy at]

The affiliate could be at risk from other more nefarious promoters of the same offer and then the fact you get paid more doesnt neccessairly translate into more money for you as half your sales get eaten up by other promoters of the same offer.

Affiliates need to dig deeper than the headline rate - Kellie Steves did a good presentation on this at Affiliate Summit.

If you have a bad actor somewhere in the chain then the headline rate doesnt look so great anymore.

If a program you want to use is on two networks and one is clean then even though you know the other isnt you must support the one that is as that opens up all sorts of interesting chats with the end client around why there other program suddenly has had an exodus.

I can make this happen here but ill only be able to do this with a large amount of support from the community

If you want a champion who has lived this scenario first hand before with Major brands then look no further.

There is always some pain and sacrfice to acheive anything worthwhile

All I need is your support and your ear and we can get this place cleaned up !

Mal

[KGP]

i believe Malcolm is quite correct on what he says.

i can see huge differences between europe and the other side of atlantic...

i might have to worry about communication with my network, i might complain about phonenumbers on sites -ammount of merchants however decrease time by time- but never about terms like parasiteware etc....

in fact i couldnt understand the whole difference of the CPA meaning here in comparison with europe...

so its more on affiliates and the way they "approve" this kind of situation rather than the affiliate networks.

to be honest i am glad buy.at is comming/came to US as well as the other european network...

[Equinut]

I work with a travel merchant in the UK and traditionally CPA for us means commission-share as opposed to CPC cost-per-click. We view the two as separate and each with their own pro's and cons.

Crivens, and I thought -our- terminology for it was confusing :errr: